huangyhg

construction documents format
i have been asked to supply engineering structural calculations to an architect for a small project.
is there a standard for the content and style of my submitted calculations? as i do most of the actual calculations via computer programs, do i just give assumed loadings iaw ibc and resultant safety factors, or what?
an example would be ideal.
please help, thanks in advance!
mike

mike,
your query worries me somewhat. it gives rise to some obvious questions -
are you really properly qualified (by training and by experience) to be doing these calculations ?
are you legally permitted to do so ?
do you have appropriate liability cover (ie cover that will prtect you and your client in the event of a subsequently identified defect in your design)? (i have been practising as a structural engineer for more than 40 years, but am not permitted to do structural design for buildings in my own state of residence because of the type of professional indemnity cover that i have).
you are only referring to calculations - if that just means sizing the structural
i concur with austim's concerns as well.
additionally, it sounds as though you might be doing what is known as "delegate" engineering work. that is when the structural engineer of record (ser)delegates the work of some component or part to a producer or other engineer to prove compliance with the design intent. if this is the case, then i offer the following:
your calculations should be detailed enough so that the ser can adequately review your approach and results. this should include your pre-processing assumptions of load case and variables, consistent with the code requirements.
both your input variables and your output, along with any post-processing analysis should be included.
you should sign and seal any computations and signify that your analytical program has been validated by comparable hand calculations.
if you can't do at least these items, give it to someone else.
ron
coincidentally, where i live, architects do calcs, develop, and stamp structural drawings all the time and they have no idea what they are doing. they seem to understand gravity loads but not lateral systems. and this is recognized by the state as being acceptable. the structural drawings never actually get looked at by a structural engineer. i couldn't believe it when i found out.
remind me not to live where heynewp lives.
pylko
i lived in florida for 30 years and architects did a lot of the structural drawings with very little structural knowledge but a structural eng. had to be extreemly careful not to encroach on anything architectural.
they have a better lobby!
i called the california state board and they said the same thing is accepted and happens. in ca, architects have the same ability as a pe does. the only difference comes with hospitals and schools which then require an se stamp. architects are left with deciding at what point they feel they need to hire a structural engineer.
it seems kind of strange to me that engineering organizations are pushing for a masters before eligible for a pe,(i'm not disagreeing), but let this go by.
we're getting a little off-topic from mikemech's question - but here's another slant on calcs.
when i was "growing up" as an engineer, my mentors always refused to submit any calculations to anyone. their reasoning was that the calculations are a personal tool of the engineer....they are not, and have never been, the service for which they were contracted. what an engineer "sells" to a client is the service of designing a structure that can be bid, built, and is safe. the calcs are no different than a calculator....just a tool.
and the calcs are subject to extreme ranges of interpretation. different engineers have different styles of writing, recording, abbreviating, etc. this concept can even be taken to the drawings themselves. the drawings are the communication tool that the engineer uses to provide his service....the drawings themselves are not the service.
all that said, today, more and more owners are requiring submitted calcs, specs, drawings, etc. with our seal on it as though they are buying our drawings. we, as engineers, become providers of a commodity, not a profession.
(vent vent vent vent) sorry.
jae...you're right about our work product. we shouldn't put it out for everyone to shoot at (wrongly, of course!). under the delegate engineer process, the function of supplying calcs. is to allow the ser the opportunity to check design intent. it is not intended for layman consumption.
off topic yes, but this business of architects having more latitude over structural engineering rather than vice versa really burns me up. at present, illinois is no different than those other states requiring a se license. i couldn't believe my eyes when i read that "after" being licensed and receiving my package of rules. i say "at present" as i hope it changes soon.
thanks for the timely input everyone. i have decided to withdraw from the project and recommended someone else who has many years experience dealing with architects in structural matters. after consideration, i felt that while i may be competent to perform a strength analysis on the structure (a large canopy sort of thing) and can read and comprehend the ibc and related codes, i don't have enough experience with this type of structural analysis to rely solely on my own judgement.
i'm sort of an engineering jack of all trades, i own my own business and have 10 yrs experience in design of fabrications, castings, machinery, manufacturing processes, etc. i have a pe, but find it mostly useless except as a suffix to my name when writing important documents for customers.
jae brings up some interesting topics. at what point do you assume the reader of your calcs knows what you're talking about? on one extreme you can simply state your assumptions and state whether the item under scrutiny will fail, referencing what codes you used if applicable. on the other extreme, you can write a report and show all of your fbd's for each member, explain all notation, show all steps in each calc, show every calc, show load diagrams, show every safety factor for each

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