huangyhg

engineering ethics question
i went to a house a contractor was building. the garage area had about 5 feet of backfill with gravel present. this is where he was going to pour his slab. the wall cracked while he was tamping it with his track hoe sitting in the middle of it (imagine that). the wall was constructed out of 12" masonry units. he reinforced it per the building code as he intrepreted it which was #4s @ 32". the corners were not reinforced. the placing per code for the steel is 8.75" from the soil side. that's where he put it, 8.75" from the soil side, 2.875" from the backfilled side (oops). therefore it's significantly overstressed.
additionally, the way i read the code, the reinforcing is based on equivalent fluid pressures based on active soil pressures (partially rigid floor system). obviously, you don't want your garage slab to settle, therefore, it should be based on at rest pressure and rigidly restrained by the concrete slab. per asce 7-02, for gravel, this should be an equivalent fluid pressure of 60 psf, which additionally blows out the footing. again, per code, anything over 4 feet of backfill should have a "permanent" lateral restraint, otherwise, engineering design is required. to me, this means a concrete slab. am i missing something?
anyhow, here is the ethical delima:
when i stated all of this above, he said he was going to pursue another engineering buddy of his to come up and state that it was alright. i feel i have an obligation to let the building department know my findings on this wall in writing. therefore, when something happens in the future, i'm covered. is this wrong?
it might be beneficial to sketch the wall section and footing. after you run the loads and check the stresses, if they indeed show overstress, discuss this with your "friend". i would investigate a couple fix solutions beforehand if it does turn out bad. if he doesn't cooperate with you when you review the facts with him, i would let it go for now. then discuss it with your lawyer friends as to what would be the next best move, bring the gang with you to confront your "friend". then if he won't listen to the entire group, he was not a friend. he must be deported. call aaahnold, and have him terminated. of course this is a textbook scenario. it's really a tough thing. you deserve all the support you can get.
i have to agree with alohabob. you need to try to get your friend to fix to problem. i am not a engineer myself but i am working and have become very good friends with the engineer i work for. many of times i am doing calculations, inspection, drawings or other task for him and the only thing on my mind is to protect his license. if a situation comes up in like you have gotten your self into, the one thing we both will talk about is "we have to keep making a living for our family's". if your friend goes ahead with this wall and slab as is, then the poor unfortunate fool that buys this house finds out that you looked at it and did nothing, will you be in trouble? if the answer is yes, will you loose your license? if so will your friend keep paying you your salary for the rest of your life? can you count on that? i can only say to you is that you have worked long and hard for your lincese to be a engineer (i know, my son is in collage to be a civil engineer now) and i personally would not let nothing take that away from me if i had a engineering license. if a friend that is willing to jeopardize the hard work that i have applied my self to and is will to take away my means of doing what i enjoy and the way i support for my family is just really not a friend at all.
i guest to sum this up is to say "think what you have worked for to get were you gave gotten and are you willing to throw that away should this get out of hand?" there will be other friends in your life but will there ever be another engineering license for you? i know all to well that life is a b__ch. good luck in your decision.
okiedokie
well, he's not a friend. he's already paid my consultation fee. now he says he doesn't want my report. the wall is definitely overstressed and the f.s. against sliding is <1.0
i think i'll call the building inspector, who is a friend of mine, to have him go by and make an impromtu (sp?) visit. hopefully the slab isn't poured yet.
there are too many contractors in this world that are dumbasses. imho, i feel the differential fill foundation wall section in the code book should be based on the worst case scenario and not spell out, "if soil is this classification, reinforcing is this, if it's that classification, do that, and if it's the other clasification, do the other." they make a vertical cut in the soil to put in their wall, and then reinforce it for granular soil. in less soil has somehow changed since i took classes, cuts in granular soil can't get too vertical. clay has a lot more soil pressures associated with it. they leave it up to people with little to no experience, classifying soils. stick with clay and go with it. if it's too much steel, hire an engineer.
chipb - without getting too far into the details of this situation, i first thought, upon reading your post, "what's an engineer doing involved in a house anyway?"
for most residential work, the "code" is not the ubc or the ibc but rather a cabo code or the irc (international residential code). your quoting of the asce 7 just got me thinking. make sure you're looking at the legally, adopted, appropriate code.
secondly, are you an engineer of record here? if so, your solution to call the building dept. is correct if you have your name on the plans. if the contractor hired you to just check out his work, or if the owner hired you, you still have an ethical duty (since you were on-site and paid) to first go to the client, report the problem, and then, should the "client" refuse your recommendations, turn to the building official assuming the problem is one of public safety/welfare.
chipb are you working to the fbc?
jae
isn't asce 7 the ruling code when the situation doesn't fall under the normal building code?
boo1
working with nc residential bldg code which is based on irc
no - asce 7 is a source document that adopted building codes refer to. unless the governing agency (city, state, county, whatever) specifically adopts it as a code, then it is only applicable if it is referenced by the truly adopted code.
in fact, asce 7 is not intended to be a stand-alone full-blown building code. it is only dealing with loads on buildings.
you would need to call the local permits department to find out what building code is applicable to a house at that location. then review that code and any references within it are applicable.....and specifically, the references are designated by the actual edition of the reference.
so you might have asce 7-95 as the applicable version as opposed to 7-02.
chipb
the north carolina residential code (2002) for new construction went into effect as of december 31, 2002 is based on the 2000 international residential code and 2002 north carolina amendments,
see it at:
chip,
i agree with you. let the building official know. screw the political repurcussions, if any.
-jcali
chipb....i would not contact the building official "unofficially" for an impromptu inspection. that could expose you to a variety of legal issues. you are the engineer and you have a responsibility to promote the health, safety, and welfare of the public, not the contractor. it is your "engineering judgment" that says it isn't good. this same judgment is required for code compliance...therefore it doesn't comply. notify the building official in writing and let the chips fall (no pun intended!).

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