几何尺寸与公差论坛------致力于产品几何量公差标准GD&T (GDT:ASME)|New GPS(ISO)研究/CAD设计/CAM加工/CMM测量  


返回   几何尺寸与公差论坛------致力于产品几何量公差标准GD&T (GDT:ASME)|New GPS(ISO)研究/CAD设计/CAM加工/CMM测量 » Norm Space: Product Automatic Standards - 范数空间:产品自动化标准 » GD&T standards » Standard training » tec-ease(America)
用户名
密码
注册 帮助 会员 日历 银行 搜索 今日新帖 标记论坛为已读


 
 
主题工具 搜索本主题 显示模式
旧 2009-09-05, 01:18 PM   #1
huangyhg
超级版主
 
huangyhg的头像
 
注册日期: 04-03
帖子: 18592
精华: 36
现金: 249466 标准币
资产: 1080358888 标准币
huangyhg 向着好的方向发展
默认 he quest for imperfection

the quest for imperfection
the cover story in what i assume to be the october 10 issue of design news has an article on something called "functional build". the concept is that instead of thoroughly inspecting each fabricated part, japanese manufacturers focus on system quality. this is explains at least part of why they design better quality cars. someone presumably is racking up consultant fees on this, and i guess i wasted my youth.
the article probably is up somewhere on
the article seems to make sense. it boils down to system engineering. perhaps they are seeing the forest instead of the trees?
here is the link to the article.
i've seen plenty of design demi-competence originating from japan. they may make there parts better, but it's a stretch to say their designs are better.
interesting article, but i think it vastly over-simplifies some things, glosses over other very important issues, and outright misrepresentes others.
"functional build" seems like just a new name for good engineering and design, giving proper consideration to ease of manufacturing, assembly and product life cycle.
far too many engineers and designers just don't understand the purpose of tolerances. tolerances serve to define the maximum deviation from the nominal part dimensions that will still allow proper function. tighter tolerances do not mean a higher quality part, just a more expensive one. if you design an assembly that cannot accomodate any variation from the nominal then you need perfectly nominal parts to build it. the concept of "functional build" says, rather than specify tigher tolerances on individual parts, go back to the assembly and design that so that it can accomodate a wider range of variation. this lets all the parts be "loser", less costly, and results in an assembly that is less likely to fail due to things like contamination, thermal expansion, and wear.
the article makes frequent use of the phrase "out of spec". i really doubt this is true of the japanese auto makers. i'm sure all the parts are within tolerance. probably far more not at exact nominal dimensions, but still "in spec."
the article gives only a single sentence to stable manufacturing processes. this is what the japanese do really well. establish appropriate tolerances, then set up a manufacturing process so that all the parts are good. build in quality rather than try to inspect in quality.
good article. makes sense to me. you can build lots of really great components, but if those components don't work in concert as a whole, then the components are pretty worthless in the end.
mintjulep,
just following up on your comment...
when you generate a manufacturing drawing and you apply tolerances and you realize they are not manufacturable, your stack-up analysis is wrong. you have to fix the design. a lot of bad design slips through because of sloppy drafting.
jhg
a really good article, but is not just a step back in time? years ago fit and function was the key, some things obviously matter but many don鈥檛, knowing which was which was the key.
as cad and cnc machining have come to the fore it seems there are less really good engineers about, lets design something that is impossible to make and stick really tight tolerances all over it, that鈥檒l do the trick, as long as it has been drawn to the correct standards that will be just fine and dandy. obviously visual parts are different but 98% of most parts just displace fresh air.
however even if the engineer in charge of the project is smart enough to realise it, just try getting it changed!!!
much of engineering these days, at least automotive in the uk/ europe is the tail wagging the dog.
quote (ajack1):
as cad and cnc machining have come to the fore it seems there are less really good engineers about, lets design something that is impossible to make and stick really tight tolerances all over it, that鈥檒l do the trick, as long as it has been drawn to the correct standards that will be just fine and dandy. obviously visual parts are different but 98% of most parts just displace fresh air.
don't you think that's a little over simplification of today's high tech machines. in todays product/functional driven world beit commerical or military designs are getting more complex just take a look at a 1970 datsun 240z and the new nissan 300z....worlds apart. the "impossible to make and stick really tight tolerances all over it" comes with advancements in technology and need.
yes heckler i was oversimplifying things. that is an interesting example you use, again i can only speak from a european perspective but the 240z was the first 鈥渄esirable鈥?car that datsun built, before that they really were basic but very cheap.
it would be hard to argue that the 300z is not a vastly superior car, but then again it is japanese and they do favour the 鈥渇it and function鈥?attitude as described in the above link.
if they are not getting such high ratings in reliability and customer satisfaction through 鈥渄esigning an impossible part and sticking really tight tolerances all over it鈥?are they perhaps doing so through better engineering?
the fact that datsun/ nissan now builds cars that are more reliable than mercedes, bmw, and jaguar for example is nearly funny.
promoting, selling, recruiting and student posting
are not allowed in the forums.
__________________
借用达朗贝尔的名言:前进吧,你会得到信心!
[url="http://www.dimcax.com"]几何尺寸与公差标准[/url]
huangyhg离线中   回复时引用此帖
GDT自动化论坛(仅游客可见)
 


主题工具 搜索本主题
搜索本主题:

高级搜索
显示模式

发帖规则
不可以发表新主题
不可以回复主题
不可以上传附件
不可以编辑您的帖子

vB 代码开启
[IMG]代码开启
HTML代码关闭

相似的主题
主题 主题发起者 论坛 回复 最后发表
【转帖】he quest for imperfection yang686526 American standards 0 2009-05-04 10:40 AM


所有的时间均为北京时间。 现在的时间是 10:46 PM.


于2004年创办,几何尺寸与公差论坛"致力于产品几何量公差标准GD&T | GPS研究/CAD设计/CAM加工/CMM测量"。免责声明:论坛严禁发布色情反动言论及有关违反国家法律法规内容!情节严重者提供其IP,并配合相关部门进行严厉查处,若內容有涉及侵权,请立即联系我们QQ:44671734。注:此论坛须管理员验证方可发帖。
沪ICP备06057009号-2
更多